Corona Virus,

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  • edited January 2021
    If you think the above is too much, please do say why. And let us know how you would deal with the problem.

    Mark

    Post edited by 1024MAK on
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  • That's almost impossible to ensure, and even if you get 99.9% of the population, its that one you missed that puts everything back to square one. Herd immunity though vaccination seems to be our best hope.
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  • Scottie_uk wrote: »
    That's almost impossible to ensure, and even if you get 99.9% of the population, its that one you missed that puts everything back to square one. Herd immunity though vaccination seems to be our best hope.
    Herd immunity whether through vaccination or via people catching the virus will only work if the virus does not mutate too much, so the antibodies most people develop can fight off any new infections and the immune system continues to produce these antibodies for the duration of the outbreak.

    Unfortunately we just don’t know if the virus will mutate into a version that the current vaccines will be ineffective against. But given that already there appears to be at least four versions of the COVID19 virus, further mutation is very likely. So it’s only likely to be a matter of time before everyone needs additional vaccinations against new strains of the virus.

    And even if the current vaccines continue to be effective, we again don’t know how long the immune system will continue to produce sufficient antibodies to be able to quickly and effectively fight the virus.

    There have already been a couple of reports of people getting infected twice.

    So whatever measures we take, and it really needs to be a worldwide effort, we have to keep all these things in mind. Hence we need to use ALL the reasonable tools and methods we have to fight the virus. Not just put all our hopes on only vaccinations.

    Especially because our current ability to manufacture, produce, and administer the vaccines is not good enough to vaccinate everyone quickly enough to keep ahead of the problems detailed above.

    Mark


    Sinclair FAQ Wiki
    Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
    WoS - can't download? Info here...
    former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
    Spectranet: the TNFS directory thread

    ! Standby alert !
    “There are four lights!”
    Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
    Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
  • edited January 2021
    1024MAK wrote: »
    If you think the above is too much, please do say why. And let us know how you would deal with the problem.
    I don't think it's too much, I think it's too little.

    The things in your other post are the things that great managers would say, which over here is just an euphenism for poor leadership. An alternative saying is, "managing by numbers". in fact, just one number. It's nice to manage your R, but not at all costs...

    Actually, it's not "at all costs", no. I think at our side of the pond, people are increasingly getting aware that "essential worker" meant mostly the lawmakers themselves and some other important jobs. Oh, and here they also compensate the company owners too, and that's it. People who got taken away the most got nothing compensated, obviously.

    As for those ridiculous fines when outside during curfew, I'm sure if you are the police, you can already fine people for ridiculous amounts for being outside during curfew. You just blame them for resisting police officers, or for not having an ID outside, or for any other thing they make up. I'm pretty sure even 1 GBP is just as good measure. Fortunately, our Minister of Justice got caught on camera for doing just that illegal thing that should have cost him a huge fine and a criminal record, so now the fines are lowered to a sensible amount (well, just low enough not to get a criminal record).
    Will this be popular, highly unlikely. But it will be better than a perpetual half-hearted lockdown or tiered restrictions that go on for months and months.

    But you are right, it's unpopular. Not because it's bad for everyone. But because it's bad for everyone except the lawmakers and the big companies with no compensation for everyone else. It's just a bad law. Then again, over here, the UK is famous for the Grenfell Tower fire and the fact that no one really got compensated, or that all the other buildings are still fire hazards.

    In short, “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

    *) Note that I'm not against rules for reducing the R number, but it is poor leadership if that's all you do.
    Post edited by Timmy on
  • edited January 2021
    Timmy, its a good critique but is thin on alternatives, how would you propose we best get the R number down?
    Post edited by Scottie_uk on
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  • edited January 2021
    Scottie_uk wrote: »
    Timmy, its a good critique but is thin on alternatives, how would you propose we best get the R number down?
    Not sure why you ask this. I'm not asking for alternatives. To get the R down you still need to have laws to reduce the amount physical contacts. You still need the lockdown, the curfew, the border checks, and everything else.

    What I'm asking is sensible laws. If you make those fines too high then people would just not care about it any more, and too low will just make richer people think it's worth doing more contacts as long as you pay. If you have no idea what a sensible fine is, set it as low as possible (because they are already other ways to increase the fines anyway).

    What you also need is to make sure that people have good alternatives for social physical contacts. And make accessing them easier/cheaper. For example, now that Glastonbury is cancelled, give the people an online version so that they have something to do. Make it easier and cheaper for people who feel bad about these lockdowns to access for mental help. Make sure that the children who are at home during lockdown to have enough help. Perhaps you need to give money to people that have huge problems due to staying at home. And I could name hundreds of other ways to do this but it's all details. Yes, this costs money. But these compensations will make it easier to reduce physical contacts, and shouldn't be skipped.

    Also, don't make laws that can only be interpreted as laws that apply to everyone else besides yourself.
    Herd immunity though vaccination seems to be our best hope.

    On the other hand, if you want Herd Immunity, let R go up as high as possible. It's also cheaper. :P (In addition of vaccination.)
    Post edited by Timmy on
  • edited January 2021
    Timmy wrote: »
    What I'm asking is sensible laws. If you make those fines too high then people would just not care about it any more, and too low will just make richer people think it's worth doing more contacts as long as you pay. If you have no idea what a sensible fine is, set it as low as possible (because they are already other ways to increase the fines anyway).

    I think this sentence could do with a re-write, logically it seems a little entangled and contradicts itself and I am sure you meant something better than what it actually says.



    Post edited by Scottie_uk on
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  • Scottie_uk wrote: »
    Timmy wrote: »
    What I'm asking is sensible laws. If you make those fines too high then people would just not care about it any more, and too low will just make richer people think it's worth doing more contacts as long as you pay. If you have no idea what a sensible fine is, set it as low as possible (because they are already other ways to increase the fines anyway).
    I think this sentence could do with a re-write, logically it seems a little entangled and contradicts itself and I am sure you meant something better than what it actually says.
    English is a second language for me. I'm not going to spend even more time to rewrite it. Writing it the first time took me long enough. Writing a second time will just cost me another hour. I just hope you understand what I meant, sorry.

    Thanks for explaining to me that it came out badly, though! I will try it better next time.
  • Ah Timmy no worries, I should of guessed. I do feel ashamed that us English speakers do not make more of an effort to write in other languages like many of our international friends like you do.
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  • edited January 2021
    Scottie_uk wrote: »
    What if, injections were done on a door to door basis, where a trucks would travel the streets and a following team would inoculate whole neighborhoods in one day. Then as everyone receives their first injection they are given a wristband with barcode in. Therefore public spaces and Venus can scan that wristband to see who has and who has not been fully inoculated with a first and second injection as necessary. The barcode could reference your name and photo, and national security number and optionally the driving license number via a web service.

    I cannot see that it would be any better. District nurses might be better placed to vaccinate those vulnerable or elderly who would like the vaccine but cannot get to a vax centre, and let the others who can get there on their own steam do so. The NHS could probably do with more district nurses, there are about 4000 currently (down from about 7000 ten years ago) , given that we have an aging population. District nurses may be more expensive to train, but they can pass some of that training on eg. they can train family members how to care for elderly parents/ grandparents. Cutting their numbers is a false economy when one considers the cost of hospital stays, just my tuppence worth.

    https://www.qni.org.uk/news-and-events/news/urgent-need-for-more-investment-in-the-district-nursing-service/
    Post edited by dmsmith on
  • I am thinking, by flooding neighborhoods with vaccine we starve the virus of hosts.

    Anyhow its all pie in the sky any way as the vaccine manufacturers have over promised and the big news story for the next three weeks will be about vaccine shortages.
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  • edited January 2021
    I'd like to ask everyone how are you coping with the current pandemic situation. How has your work situation changed, how are you doing socially? Are you in good spirits, p155ed off, angry depressed?

    Post edited by Scottie_uk on
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  • Current situation in my country is pretty bad and very restrictive measures deriving from lockdown are becoming a test to mental sanity.

    I feel angry at politicians for not taking action when they should have (around 19th December it was clear situation was spinning out of control).

    I could whack many health-experts-advisors that vanished from tv/radio/internet right before Christmas/New Year when they should have been crying out loud and warning everyone about the huge mistakes being made that would lead us to the terrible situation we're in today.

    Next time I go out I'll probably dress like this...


    a6d35a0485fc8889d7d84d666571920b.jpg
  • I'm getting bored as i feel almost trapped indoors, i only venture out for food now. I don't even go out for walks exercise anymore luckily my weight is under control. So as i'm still working from home (manager said last week it could possibly be July before we're back in the office but i'm sceptical about that) when i finish i find it hard to switch off as i've not had the journey home to unwind/think about the day's events etc.
    Just spend most of my free time either gaming or watching telly. I daren't risk visiting my mum in case i pass covid to her unknowingly. I can't see this ending soon.
    The trouble with tribbles is.......
  • It's really been a long second lockdown not lockdown 3 here. Went from lockdown 2 to a tier 4(same rules as lockdown), then this lockdown 3, so nothing has changed for quite sometime. Doing alright though I'm healthy, just like everyone else trying not to go too stir crazy.
  • I am a bit baffled that you wouldn't even go out considering you are forced to stay in thanks to home office. I have to be present at my work place, which requires a roughly 1 hour long commute (half of that is walking which I don't mind, the less time spent near strangers in public transport, the better) - yet I still feel the urge to get off my ass and take a walk of at least 1-2 hours on Saturdays or Sundays, mainly because I actually get to move about in the mornings and noon times, as my work hours are from 7.30 to 16.00, so there isn't much daylight in my spare time during the week. Though I also enjoy walking around in the evening hours as there are fewer people around, but during the week I'm usually too knackered to do this.

    But obviously I don't know about your current lockdown situation. Thankfully there isn't anything like a curfew in the part of Krautland where I live ... well, yet. Might come at some point though. What about Scotland? Are you only allowed to leave the house for work commutes/shopping/doctors and exercise?
  • Timmy wrote: »
    I'm not asking for alternatives. To get the R down you still need to have laws to reduce the amount physical contacts. You still need the lockdown, the curfew, the border checks, and everything else.

    What I'm asking is sensible laws. If you make those fines too high then people would just not care about it any more, and too low will just make richer people think it's worth doing more contacts as long as you pay. If you have no idea what a sensible fine is, set it as low as possible (because they are already other ways to increase the fines anyway).

    What you also need is to make sure that people have good alternatives for social physical contacts. And make accessing them easier/cheaper. For example, now that Glastonbury is cancelled, give the people an online version so that they have something to do. Make it easier and cheaper for people who feel bad about these lockdowns to access for mental help. Make sure that the children who are at home during lockdown to have enough help. Perhaps you need to give money to people that have huge problems due to staying at home. And I could name hundreds of other ways to do this but it's all details. Yes, this costs money. But these compensations will make it easier to reduce physical contacts, and shouldn't be skipped.

    Also, don't make laws that can only be interpreted as laws that apply to everyone else besides yourself.

    Yes, I don’t have a problem with any of that. In fact I would much prefer a positive incentive (carrot rather than stick) system. But coming up with such a system and it being affordable, and being able to get the required legislation through our parliament is rather tricky...

    I mean, I did think that if we could ramp up the testing, maybe if you were found not to have the virus or any antibodies (unless you have been vaccinated), then you should get a reward. But of course, this would be unfair to those who had caught it through no fault of their own. And it’s not a very practical system.

    With regards to education, I still find it astonishing that not all poor families are being given laptops for their children to use. The cost of a laptop per child whose parent(s) are on income support (or equivalent) is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of money that the government is using to prop up the economy.

    Humans (well, most) are very social, and lockdown is unnatural. Mental health is already suffering. But which is worse, months and endless months of ineffective restrictions, or a shorter much more effective proper lockdown?

    Mark

    Sinclair FAQ Wiki
    Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
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    former Meulie Spectrum Archive but no longer available :-(
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    ! Standby alert !
    “There are four lights!”
    Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
    Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
  • XTM of TMG wrote: »
    ... Are you only allowed to leave the house for work commutes/shopping/doctors and exercise?

    Yes, but in the case of shopping and exercise people are now restricted to their "residential area" for a brief period of time and cannot stray away, or else face a fine.
    On the other hand, people must carry with themselves a document which proves where one lives because police can ask for it and should they decide you have wandered off too far you can also be fined.
    For someone like me who used to go for long walks or cycling for 3 hours/several kms , this is like being caged.
  • edited January 2021
    If you can, I urge folkes to get out at least once a day, if only for 15 minutes. If you do not, you may be healthy now but by the summer not so. Also, natural light is good for your mood, and will help reduce the effects of seasonal effective disorder. Also, you need to keep fit, keep those lungs healthy and strong so that, heaven forbid you get the virus, that you have some extra capacity to get you though. I have taken up a small amount of jogging and add in to it sit ups and push ups to compensate for the sedentary nature of my work.

    I myself am having to start the year off teaching all my classes online and then in mid February, I might be allowed to teach classes in person at 50% capacity, with students alternating between watching the lecture streamed online or being there in person.

    I am feeling quite apprehensive and depressed. Right now I'm just one negative email from the boss or colleagues away from depression. My work made statements about being forgiving over the coming months, but some folkes have done just the opposite. I forgive them because I bet we are all on edge at the moment. Some students have also been very self centered, and think the whole world needs to accommodate their apathy 'because there is a global pandemic doing on'. I made the mistake of telling them they had more time not less, when we were told we could not go outside and I felt the burn for sure.

    The saving grace is that I am living semi-rural and so have plenty of safe and secluded places outside.

    I feel the situation has just gone on far too long and I am fed up with it and just cannot wait for it to be history. I like to think that in the summer we will have a huge party to celebrate the end of it all. However, I very much suspect that this thing wont just be stopped in its tracks, but rather taper out over years to come and so the easing back to normality will take way longer than 6 months. I have not seen my mum and dad in person since August 19 and that makes me very sad, thankfully they are savvy enough to use Skype.
    Post edited by Scottie_uk on
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  • edited January 2021
    I put a copy of the lockdown rules and restrictions here.

    Mark
    Post edited by 1024MAK on
    Sinclair FAQ Wiki
    Repair Guides. Spanish Hardware site.
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    ! Standby alert !
    “There are four lights!”
    Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
    Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
  • The company I work for is in Travel Technology. We already had a large round of redundancies and huge pay cuts for the rest when the Travel industry completely shut down last Spring. That was only ever intended to get us to the end of the year, and obviously things are not looking much better for 2021, so we just had another reorganisation. I'm lucky that I still have a job after almost half the company is gone, but thankfully we still do have some long-term projects keeping us financed for now.

    On a more personal note, lockdown is getting very difficult in our house. My wife and I are working from home with 3 kids also trying to do school work, and motivation is dwindling badly across the board. Interpersonal relationships are really suffering and the kids especially are constantly fighting with us and each other. It's definitely unhealthy for them to have none of their usual outlets, like their friends, excursions, and their teamsports.

    On the positive side, we do live in a rural location so can get out into the fresh air when the weather allows. And we got our first ever pet dog 3 months ago. He's a rapidly-growing husky, so is keeping us very busy and motivates us to go outside and exercise!
  • Scottie_uk wrote: »
    I'd like to ask everyone how are you coping with the current pandemic situation. How has your work situation changed, how are you doing socially? Are you in good spirits, p155ed off, angry depressed?

    I am just more or less accepting it, the lockdown is what is affecting people more than the virus - I do wish the governement would look at things in the round a bit more.
  • Renegade wrote: »
    Is this a joke?
    Only if you bend over without checking who is behind you!

    Sinclair FAQ Wiki
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    ! Standby alert !
    “There are four lights!”
    Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb!
    Looking forward to summer in Somerset later in the year :)
  • edited January 2021
    Renegade wrote: »
    Is this a joke?

    Who knows, its the media.
    On another note, we had a couple of inches of snow this Sunday, down south, and that seem cheer a lot of folk up. It got lots of people out for walks and the kids were making snowmen and sledging. Everyone seemed to be acting sensibly in their family groups and not taking the **** with contact etc. Certainly cheered me up for the day.
    Post edited by Luny on
    Sod it!

    @luny@mstdn.games
    https://www.luny.co.uk
  • Over 100,000 deaths in the UK.

    The sad thing is how many of them were avoidable.
  • Renegade wrote: »
    Next time I go out I'll probably dress like this...

    a6d35a0485fc8889d7d84d666571920b.jpg

    Be careful you might get mistaken for Jacques Cousteau!

  • 1024MAK wrote: »
    Renegade wrote: »
    Is this a joke?
    Only if you bend over without checking who is behind you!

    Well, if in doubt, do it to yourself...

    They even thought of that!


    Ok, now this story is really starting to smell funny (no pun intended).

    I think Dr. Li Tongzeng knows more than he is telling.

    If these tests are being deployed, then I suspect there must be great concern going on in China right now.

    My 2 cents... Either they want to rule out or confirm the possibility of the virus being transmissible by some means (not disclosed in the news) and ability of infecting the human disgestive tract, bypassing the respiratory tract as is expected from a respiratory virus. That of course would mean an even bigger trouble for everybody.

  • I get my COVID shot today. My employer, an American university, has a school of Health Human Sciences where they teach nursing, and so they are helping in the regional effort to get the population vaccinated. They have classified all lecturers as front line workers, tier 3 after, tier1: health workers, tier2: old and infirm.
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  • edited March 2021
    Hope all goes well, Scottie. I know quite a few who've had it and the vast majority have been fine. A couple reported feeling a bit lousy the day after but that went away after a few hours.

    Don't think I mentioned this when it happened but a lad I went to school with passed away from Covid about a month back. 48 years old, no health issues, non-smoker and physically fit. Ended up in the ICU and didn't come out of it alive. Crying shame as he was a genuine, lovely bloke. This was in the Black Country.
    Post edited by Vampyre on
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